Which evidently means most Methodists like I was are not “real Christians.” =) On the one hand such liberal Christianity is slightly intellectually better because it means they recognize that such OT things like Creation is absurd and just plain wrong, and encouragement to observe slavery and stoning for tiny social infractions, are horrible atrocities. Liberal Christians, of which is the grand majority of Christians, tend to be reserved, moderate, and possibly eventually easier to bring over to secular humanism. Studies indicate that a significant number of these liberal Christians claim the mantle “Christian” simply because that’s how they were raised and they live in a “God-fearing Christian” country that looks down upon non-conformity. They don’t even know there’s alternatives, like secular humanism, that promote ethics and values and morality without myth and superstition. (A morality that’s based on empathy and basic human rights and understanding which, to be arrogant, is of a greater “value” than morality based on the commands of a vengeful divine dictator.)

But I am hesitant to accept “let them believe what they want.” On the surface that sounds good. It’s a free country! And ideally, that’d be great. I’d love to just let people believe what they want.
But these deluded people are in government making decisions about medicine and medical research that could affect my wife. They’re on school boards and teaching classes making decisions based on their delusion that could affect my daughter. When what they believe could detrimentally affect my family’s well-being and intellectual development, it is encumbant upon me to not allow that.

Which evidently means most Methodists like I was are not “real Christians.” =) On the one hand such liberal Christianity is slightly intellectually better because it means they recognize that such OT things like Creation is absurd and just plain wrong, and encouragement to observe slavery and stoning for tiny social infractions, are horrible atrocities. Liberal Christians, of which is the grand majority of Christians, tend to be reserved, moderate, and possibly eventually easier to bring over to secular humanism. Studies indicate that a significant number of these liberal Christians claim the mantle “Christian” simply because that’s how they were raised and they live in a “God-fearing Christian” country that looks down upon non-conformity. They don’t even know there’s alternatives, like secular humanism, that promote ethics and values and morality without myth and superstition. (A morality that’s based on empathy and basic human rights and understanding which, to be arrogant, is of a greater “value” than morality based on the commands of a vengeful divine dictator.)

But I am hesitant to accept “let them believe what they want.” On the surface that sounds good. It’s a free country! And ideally, that’d be great. I’d love to just let people believe what they want.
But these deluded people are in government making decisions about medicine and medical research that could affect my wife. They’re on school boards and teaching classes making decisions based on their delusion that could affect my daughter. When what they believe could detrimentally affect my family’s well-being and intellectual development, it is encumbant upon me to not allow that.

“like arguing with someone who thinks they’re Napoleon”

I’ve encountered a few Napoleon’s on my blog, too. Not fun at all.

“All that babbling to say, that book is not proof of Yahveh being the source of morality and in fact, it’s evidence against it.”

I agree. This study into the roots of Gnosticism has helped pull my brain in the direction to be able to see that. This Yahveh of the OT (demiurge to the Gnostics), was the original Narcissus… the consummate egomaniac.

As for the “common Christian rebuttal”, allow me to throw you a curve ball. In my Christian upbringing (which was Baptist), we were not taught that Jesus overthrew the law. We were taught to take both OT and NT together as a cohesive unit, as you have so clearly made the case for here. The explanation given for the atrocities of the OT God was: He is God; He made everything, rules everything, and we are not to question Him.

I agree with you about the sad delusion of some Christians. I wasn’t one of them, of course. LOL But it really is amazing for me to look back at the things I believed just a few years ago… As I have written on my blog, it is also painful to encounter the anger of friends and family when you finally “see the light”, knowing they are left in the darkness and you can’t help them.

I have come to the conclusion, though, that it just not worth discussing with most hardcore Christians. As long as they aren’t trying to impose their brand of Absolute Morality on the rest of us, let them believe whatever they want.

“like arguing with someone who thinks they’re Napoleon”

I’ve encountered a few Napoleon’s on my blog, too. Not fun at all.

“All that babbling to say, that book is not proof of Yahveh being the source of morality and in fact, it’s evidence against it.”

I agree. This study into the roots of Gnosticism has helped pull my brain in the direction to be able to see that. This Yahveh of the OT (demiurge to the Gnostics), was the original Narcissus… the consummate egomaniac.

As for the “common Christian rebuttal”, allow me to throw you a curve ball. In my Christian upbringing (which was Baptist), we were not taught that Jesus overthrew the law. We were taught to take both OT and NT together as a cohesive unit, as you have so clearly made the case for here. The explanation given for the atrocities of the OT God was: He is God; He made everything, rules everything, and we are not to question Him.

I agree with you about the sad delusion of some Christians. I wasn’t one of them, of course. LOL But it really is amazing for me to look back at the things I believed just a few years ago… As I have written on my blog, it is also painful to encounter the anger of friends and family when you finally “see the light”, knowing they are left in the darkness and you can’t help them.

I have come to the conclusion, though, that it just not worth discussing with most hardcore Christians. As long as they aren’t trying to impose their brand of Absolute Morality on the rest of us, let them believe whatever they want.