Comments on: Why The Very Basis of Orthodox Christianity is Absurd and Cruel http://www.celticbear.com/weblog The daily...weekly...occasional journal by someone you don't know. Fri, 04 Nov 2011 00:43:00 +0000 hourly 1 By: CelticBear http://www.celticbear.com/weblog/religious-issues/why-the-very-basis-of-orthodox-christianity-is-absurd-and-cruel/comment-page-1/#comment-80874 CelticBear Wed, 12 Oct 2011 05:37:00 +0000 http://www.celticbear.com/weblog/?page_id=314#comment-80874 Thanks for visiting. Indeed, I was using the small-o definition of "orthodox" in the same way Protestants use small-c catholic to mean "universal" and not big-C denomination. This is an old post, and I've long since stopped using "orthodox" in that way to avoid confusion. I'd be interested where it's recorded that Einstein said anything like that. I'm exceedingly... skeptical, he'd say such a thing. To say the universe is "outside" logic is like saying it's outside calculus. Logic, like math, is simply an epistemological tool devised to help us explain the natural universe. There's nothing written in the fabric of the universe that says "a tautology is a fallacy," but neither is a2 + b2 = c2 written anywhere. But the evidence of the conclusions we reach using these tools, if used well, is ample proof that these are perfectly valid tools to help us understand the universe. For example, I can use logic to point out that your statement: "logic doesn't apply to love. If God is love, then truly God is not logical" contains the logical fallacies of category error and special pleading, at least. One reason I can't stand philosophers in general is because they perpetrate semantic fallacies left and right. To say logic can't be applied to love is like saying algebra can't be applied to dreams and thinking you've just undermined and invalidated all of mathematics. Logic isn't an applicable tool to, what, measuring(?) an emotion any more than algebra can quantify a dream state, but I can still apply logic to a set of premeses and a conclusion as I can use algebra to solve for X. But you've got one thing right: God's not at all logical! Neither as a concept nor as a fictional character in a book. Thanks for visiting. Indeed, I was using the small-o definition of “orthodox” in the same way Protestants use small-c catholic to mean “universal” and not big-C denomination.
This is an old post, and I’ve long since stopped using “orthodox” in that way to avoid confusion.

I’d be interested where it’s recorded that Einstein said anything like that. I’m exceedingly… skeptical, he’d say such a thing.

To say the universe is “outside” logic is like saying it’s outside calculus. Logic, like math, is simply an epistemological tool devised to help us explain the natural universe. There’s nothing written in the fabric of the universe that says “a tautology is a fallacy,” but neither is a2 + b2 = c2 written anywhere. But the evidence of the conclusions we reach using these tools, if used well, is ample proof that these are perfectly valid tools to help us understand the universe.

For example, I can use logic to point out that your statement: “logic doesn’t apply to love. If God is love, then truly God is not logical” contains the logical fallacies of category error and special pleading, at least. One reason I can’t stand philosophers in general is because they perpetrate semantic fallacies left and right. To say logic can’t be applied to love is like saying algebra can’t be applied to dreams and thinking you’ve just undermined and invalidated all of mathematics. Logic isn’t an applicable tool to, what, measuring(?) an emotion any more than algebra can quantify a dream state, but I can still apply logic to a set of premeses and a conclusion as I can use algebra to solve for X.

But you’ve got one thing right: God’s not at all logical! Neither as a concept nor as a fictional character in a book.

]]> By: Fr. Brendan http://www.celticbear.com/weblog/religious-issues/why-the-very-basis-of-orthodox-christianity-is-absurd-and-cruel/comment-page-1/#comment-80873 Fr. Brendan Wed, 12 Oct 2011 02:11:00 +0000 http://www.celticbear.com/weblog/?page_id=314#comment-80873 Dear friend,  I enjoyed your blog in which you describe Orthodox Christianity as "absurd and cruel." In fact, it made me laugh. You see, I am a priest of the Orthodox Church (with a capital "O"), and I thought your blog was about that--so I was intrigued. What I discovered on reading your analysis was that you have never encountered Orthodox Christianity; therefore, I could agree with much of what you say.  The point is that you are using logic, whereas Christian faith is about relationship and analogic (Greek, "above-logic"). Einstein pointed out that it doesn't work to apply logic even to the universe itself:  we are contingent beings, and will not be able to use our logic to describe a world which is supra-logical. Physics is not "logical" but it is fascinating precisely because the more we discover, the more we realize that its own logic is far beyond our assumptions and ideas. Similar, Wittgenstein pointed out that logic doesn't apply to love. If God is love, then truly God is not logical! Not, at least, in terms of our own logical abilities. In any case, I would enjoy a dialogue with you--not a debate, but simply getting to know you and to learn more of what you think. If you like, read my blog site (orthodoxpilgrims.wordpress.com) and let me know what you think of it. And may God, who truly exists, bless you and grant you abundant grace.  The unworthy priest, +Fr Brendan  Dear friend,  I enjoyed your blog in which you describe Orthodox Christianity as “absurd and cruel.” In fact, it made me laugh. You see, I am a priest of the Orthodox Church (with a capital “O”), and I thought your blog was about that–so I was intrigued. What I discovered on reading your analysis was that you have never encountered Orthodox Christianity; therefore, I could agree with much of what you say.  The point is that you are using logic, whereas Christian faith is about relationship and analogic (Greek, “above-logic”). Einstein pointed out that it doesn’t work to apply logic even to the universe itself:  we are contingent beings, and will not be able to use our logic to describe a world which is supra-logical. Physics is not “logical” but it is fascinating precisely because the more we discover, the more we realize that its own logic is far beyond our assumptions and ideas. Similar, Wittgenstein pointed out that logic doesn’t apply to love. If God is love, then truly God is not logical! Not, at least, in terms of our own logical abilities. In any case, I would enjoy a dialogue with you–not a debate, but simply getting to know you and to learn more of what you think. If you like, read my blog site (orthodoxpilgrims.wordpress.com) and let me know what you think of it. And may God, who truly exists, bless you and grant you abundant grace.  The unworthy priest, +Fr Brendan 

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